The Last Podcast Opinionated Web 2.0 News and Commentary

Computer Science Was A Dead End For Me

This is a guest post by Corvida who blogs regularly on Social Media, Web 2.0, and the Social Web at SheGeeks.net.
   

Stacey Higginbotham recently post on GigaOM about Women Troubles In Technology in response to a NYT article about the loss of women in the science and technology fields once they hit over 30. Well NYT, I dropped out of Computer Science at 19 and not because of the "macho culture" that the NYT perpetrates in their article. I dropped out for entirely different reasons that had absolutely nothing to do with how many males were in my class. In fact, the sex ratio wasn’t all that bad. There were numerous young ladies not only in my class, but within the entire Computer Science department. Even the staff in the department had a balanced ratio. However, that doesn’t have a thing to do with dropping out of Computer Science.

Math

Quite frankly, I don’t like this subject. It’s why you won’t see too many posts about statistics on SheGeeks. Numbers over 1,000 start to confuse me. Add in the complicated jargon of math and you’ll completely lose me. Math is confusing for me. I excel in reading and writing (like you can’t tell). I like subjects that aren’t restrictive and Math is one of the most limiting subjects I’ve ever had to take. It gives me a migraine and personally, I don’t think it should be so damn serious. It’s just numbers for crying out loud! Regardless, I need more room for thinking, analyzing, and concluding. Math doesn’t allow that type of flexibility and if you’re taking CS, expect to take 2-3 math classes all four years of college. Uh, I don’t think so.

Professors and Teaching Reqs.

The school I previously attended always had foreign teachers for the hardest subjects for American students: Math and English. No offense to foreigners, but for a subject that I’ve always struggled to understand, I don’t want the added pressure of trying to decode professors with heavy accents. Unfortunately for me, it seemed like I always picked a math teacher with a strong accent. I unintentionally developed a knack for it my freshman and sophomore years of college.

Not only were the accents thick, but most math teachers want you to learn math the hard way and there way. Most won’t help students out and provide shortcuts to problems. Don’t even think of using a shortcut that you may have found on your own. I did this once and had to see the head of the math department just for the teacher to re-grade my test. I was warned not to use any shortcuts or knowledge that I learned outside of class and to stick to what the teacher taught. This is actually pretty common, especially in the math department. It’s their way or the high way. Uh, I don’t think so.

Dead End Future

Another problem that was the final straw during the beginning of my junior year was that CS was a dead end. I found the field itself to be too limiting. You’re either programming or doing IT. End of discussion. Where the hell is that supposed to take me? I couldn’t imagine having to travel around the world just to program something. Since when have you heard a programmer talk about the latest place that there job took them. I hadn’t. I still haven’t. While IT may have been less limiting, I still couldn’t see much coming out of it. I wanted to be able to freely move between other areas. I wanted to explore the field, but the problem was that there were no other areas that I knew of. In the end, CS just seemed like a dead end job. I want a career. So, uh I don’t think so.

No Passion

The CS program at my school catered mainly to programming. I’ve never had a passion for programming. In fact, I didn’t have any type of programming experience. I just knew how to design web sites and work a computer like the pro. My speciality? The internet! I could do anything on the internet. If I didn’t know how to do it, I knew where to find out. The Java classes were boring to me. I only liked them because I could tinker with something. However, my heart wasn’t into building what I was tinkering with it, at least not when it came to programming. Eventually, I accepted that to continue in CS, I needed to have a passion for what I was being taught.

Where Am I Now?

Well, I’m transferring schools for one. I took this semester off (Jan – May) to work on SheGeeks as a project until I figured out what I wanted to do. Then, I became an internet rockstar. I found my passion in the social web with an emphasis in social media. The school I’m attempting to transfer to has a Mass Media department, which isn’t classified under science and technology, but does delve into another side of tech. The curriculum is exciting and the department staff are great (at least over the phone). I’ve found my passion. I’ve found my program and, hopefully, I’ve found my school. In the end, CS was no fun for me and it had absolutely nothing to do with the guys in my class that weren’t the least bit "macho".

> Math is one of the most limiting subjects I’ve ever had to take. It gives me a migraine and personally, I don’t think it should be so damn serious. It’s just numbers for crying out loud! Regardless, I need more room for thinking, analyzing, and concluding. Math doesn’t allow that type of flexibility.

epic fail.

agree with mind

BIG NUMBERS!

>Not only were the accents thick, but most math teachers want you to learn math the hard way and there way.

Another EPIC FAIL

“I found the field itself to be too limiting. You’re either programming or doing IT.”

You don't seem to even know what CS is. Which is OK, but it is hardly allows you to make an informed decision when rendering it a “dead end”. Perhaps the program you were in was lacking, but that would call for a switch in programs, not a switch in field of study.

loser

> I just knew how to design web sites and work a computer like the pro. My speciality? The internet!

Then you don't want to do CS, you want to do web development

Heh I didn't like the maths either but I guess where we differ is I did the hard yards and got my maths minor at all costs and you did not.

> I excel in reading and writing (like you can’t tell)

> but most math teachers want you to learn math the hard way and _there_ way.

Uh, I don't think so – it's “their”

(BTW–You are going to be inundated with negative comments because this got picked up by a major news feed site. That's how I got here too.)

CS was a dead end for me too, not because of the college experience but because of the industry experience. Your point about the industry never sending programmers around the world is probably the most salient thing in this piece. I eventually switched to a physical engineering discipline.

Sorry about your experience with math instructors. I fully agree that math instruction at the university level is poorly done. Math itself isn't numbers, it is merely the way to get from problem setup to analytical solution; at the bleeding edge math is a very creative discipline hiding behind impenetrable academic language in the papers.

A man doesn't have to be “macho” to be sexist or contribute to a workplace hostile to women; he simply has to be oblivious to sexism around him to accomplish that. Your colleagues at school may have tried to welcome you, but let me say that you had an unusual experience if that was the case. I'm afraid that this piece will be picked up by many men in the industry to “prove” that women avoid CS/IT because of the math/logic requirements, that they can't hack it, rather than because of the reasons you actually gave (that CS leads to a cubicle-bound career limited to craftsman coding).

I dropped out of Veterinary Science at 19. I am really great at walking dogs, I didn't understand why we had to learn all this “biology” stuff? I find it really limiting, tee hee hee! In conclusion, being a vet isn't fun because you can't go to the carnival.

This author is a very annoying person. She embodies several negative stereotypical attributes of women. If all women were like her, I would probably hate them. A lot.

“Math is hard! Math teachers can't speak right and won't help me! I want to travel! Programming is boring!”

Can I ask what prompted you to select CS in the first place? I understand that its not for everyone, but there must have been something that looked good from the outside. Can you tell us what it was?

It looks like your expectations were not fulfilled. Maybe CS programs need to make the content clearer to prospective students.

Also, maths teaching is abysmal. I saw a post a long time ago by someone who taught maths through discovery rather than by copying theorems on the blackboard, and it was a great success. Most maths teachers just don't work like that.

James Justin Harrell said pretty much exactly what I was thinking when I read this. The author is stunningly annoying, and has no grasp of what being a CS involves. Somebody who hates math because “numbers over 1,000 start to confuse me” has had no math classes, or paid no attention in them. I've heard mathematicians complain before that people tend to think mathematics is dealing with really really big numbers, like how people think computer science deals with typing really fast (I've had people ask me if I learned to type fast in my CS courses on more than one occasion). I really didn't think people actually believed this about math until reading this post though. Lots of mathematicians I know are terrible with basic math, they just don't care enough to be good at it, there's no need to be, math is a problem solving exercise. If you hated math you'll probably hate CS, because they're the same sort of problem solving work. Apparently the math and CS programs at your school were terribly oppressive, so maybe they're partially to blame for this, but statements about how you hate programming but you're a whiz at “the internet! I could do anything on the internet” are just silly, I find wut's analogy about biology and dog walking excellent. This article purported to be about women in technology, but this was about one woman who hated everything about math and computer science and wants to write stuff (which she excels at, if you couldn't tell) and travel.

I won't dive into math issues, because your thinking is so alien to me. Whereas you find math restricting I find it liberating. But I've always liked math, ever since entering primary school.

>I couldn’t imagine having to travel around the world just to
>program something. Since when have you heard a
>programmer talk about the latest place that there job took >them.

Ah, this is very simplistic observation. I guess you either don't know many programmers or only know the so called code-monkeys. Let me tell you : of all my high school classmates I travel the most (professionally). There are all those conferences, deployments to foreign customers, consultations with off-shore branches of company, etc. Each and everyone of them offer a possibility to take a day or two (or more, if possible) to experience the world.

So, I have been to all continents except Africa, many times took with me also my girlfriend and all in all I have to say that being a senior programmer is a great job and entering CS course was one of the best decisions in in my life.

You better be hot, because brains are clearly lacking.

Math “education” is the ultimate form of brainwashing. It's not for everybody.

Don't let these people beat you up. They are insensitive and harsh. I dropped out of CS for sort of similar, but different reasons. In my case, the way CS was being taught bored me. I wanted to make lots of cash and get out of my parent's and grandparent's cycle of debt. I wanted to jump out there and just code things to make money. Unfortunately, however, I didn't want to learn much math beyond Trig, and didn't care for how Math was taught (just like you), and knew I could do well enough on my own in writing software without their help. So, since I knew I was a whiz at software and didn't need their help, I moved on to English Literature and Creative Writing, which fascinated me, and would provide to me a stepping stone into a law degree, which I thought would pay me a lot of cash. So, off I went and I stumbled poorly at first. I finally became a straight A student in my new major and graduated with both a BS and a BA, but they said I could only take one or the other. I took the BA and went off to work and pay down my college debt while I strategized about getting into law school. Unfortunately, work changed me, and I lost my appetite for law school and wanted to go back into computers. So off I went into tech support, then network engineer, then sysop, then DBA, and then finally into web development. I managed to work my way up to a salary of $150K during the dot com boom a few years ago, but after the layoff and a reboot at a new company, I now make $75K, which is sort of okay. Not bad for someone who never completed his CS degree. And now, if I could only go back and teach CS classes — I would blow the doors off the other professors.

To me, they teach CS completely wrong. I hear too many stories of kids learning how to do web development on a Windows 95 workstation running Personal Web Server! Give me a break!

Oh, and Java _IS_ boring. Try PHP — that's fun, and I use it on Linux. And if you're not a Linux fan yet, try ubuntu.com — it'll make you into a convert.

You should pat yourself on the back. You've saved yourself from a lifetime of uncertainty and wage competition with goat herders in inpoverished third world countries. You're right , computer science is about programming no matter what anyone tries to tell you and programming is the first occupation to be outsourced and offshored. Trust me, programmers who spend a lot of time traveling are rare. My advice to all college students is: Don't be the person who gets offshored, be the manager type that offshores everyone else (I bet their math skills suck too). Then you can complain because, “We just can't find enough programmers”.

The content of this post shows many misunderstandings and some factual errors besides the general whining, but the comments so far seem to have missed the post's title. For me, the title redeems the post: Computer science clearly was a dead end for this person.

This is the most ignorant article I have come across in a while. Excelling in reading and writing, yet basic mixups between “there” and “their”?

And it'd be difficult to go into CS without knowing that there is a large chunk of mathematical content. Why did you go in, anyway? Geeky girl who thus assumes she should be doing CS? I read “internet superstar” yet I think “youtube camwhore”.

lol i thought i was the only one noticed that

I wonder why everyone is so critical of the writer. It was fun reading the article. A very good writer indeed! I might not agree w/ her on a couple points, but I'm in awe of her writing skills nevertheless!

You know, I'm currently in the same boat. The CS curriculum at my school involves A TON of programming. I HATE programming. The kind of things I'm really interested deal with networking and computational media. I actually have a job right now at school that involves working mostly with network security. I wish that I could only study network security and not programming, but I guess I have to make some sacrifices somewhere. Programming will help a bit but I think I can do just fine, if not even better without it. I've thought about possibly transferring to another school that caters to my interests better but the prospect of of leaving my current job which I love, and abandoning an Ivy League education, are both things that I am having a really tough time grappling with. Any thoughts or suggestions?

You observed that CS is either programming or IT: no offence, but what did you *expect* to do with a CS degree?

ROFL. This chick reminds me of the Barbie doll that goes 'Math is hard!' when you squeeze it. Thank the gods she didn't finish with CS — she'd probably be the one who writes the navigation code that makes the plane I'm on crash into a mountain.

I love Computer Science and I wouldn’t do anything else than that.

Computer Science involves math and creativity.
It’s simple as that, you can’t like something you don’t understand but of course the faculty and how you are presented this knowledge can influence you and make you hate Computer science.

But please don’t make assumptions that CS is programming or IT, its a new field and there are great opportunities out there for those who work hard enough for them.

Too bad computer Science was a dead end for you, but remember
nothing good comes easy in life.
Good luck.